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Junior Member
 
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Last Login: 12/11/2009 12:32:00
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Are they scare mongering?
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Forum Member
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Last Login: 14/04/2010 11:04:05
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Way to go lose all your credibility Cóir!
Complete scaremongering by using €1.84 as a number without any context or proper explanation.
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 09/09/2009 17:28:22
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Minimum wage
One poster proclaims, “€1.84 minimum wage after Lisbon?”
This extraordinary statement is so far from the truth that most Irish people would immediately know it has no basis in reality. The EU has not currently, nor will it have under Lisbon, any power over the minimum wages of member states. Ireland’s minimum wage will be completely unaffected.
It is impossible to decipher the process by which Cóir arrived at the figure of €1.84 from the source they quote, but they appear to be referring to an already existing EU law, whereby temporary workers on short-term contracts abroad are subject to the employment laws of their own country (Posted Workers Directive). But this law is already in place, and however much we may disagree with it, Lisbon will do nothing to change it.
In fact, the Lisbon Treaty brings in a whole range of provisions which safeguard workers’ rights and make EU Treaty law far more socially progressive.
* The Charter of Fundamental Rights means that rights such as those of fair and just working conditions (Charter, Article 31), collective bargaining and action (Article 28) and prohibition of child labour (Article 32) are protected as never before.
* Article 152 (TFEU) “recognises and promotes the role of the social partners at its level, taking into account the diversity of national systems. [The EU] shall facilitate dialogue between the social partners, respecting their autonomy.”
* Article 207.4 (TFEU) gives each member state a veto on aspects of the common commercial policy “in the field of trade in social, education and health services, where these agreements risk seriously disturbing the national organisation of such services and prejudicing the responsibility of member states to deliver them.”
Lisbon will not have any impact on our minimum wage. In fact it provides for even greater social protection than is currently guaranteed in EU law.
This is from our website - Generationyes.ie
www.generationyes.ie
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Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/11/2009 12:32:00
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Visits: 56
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Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/11/2009 12:32:00
Posts: 15,
Visits: 56
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Some interesting commentary from Mamam Poulet who attended a Coir event the other night.
http://www.mamanpoulet.com/my-evening-with-coir/
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 03/09/2009 21:42:50
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Charlemagne (01/09/2009)
Way to go lose all your credibility Cóir!
Cóir ever had credibility?!
Is it not possible to prevent lies being put forward about this referendum (be it from the No or the Yes side)?
Does anyone know if the Referendum Commission have any powers to stop this?
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Junior Member
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Last Login: 12/11/2009 12:32:00
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 03/09/2009 21:42:50
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Forum Guru
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Last Login: 12/11/2009 11:42:47
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I actually think Coir have shot themselves in the foot with their campaign - it's so obviously full of lies that nobody sensible could believe anything they're saying.
But it all makes sense when you visit their website and realise that they're a little, let's say 'Right Wing' and are really focused on things like banning abortion and all the usual Youth Defence agendas.
I find it insulting that they would think I'd believe any of their crap.
click here (03/09/2009)
Love it!
: )
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 04/09/2009 19:40:38
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These posters are only vaguely more ridiculous than the real thing.
More on www.wshd.net
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 05/09/2009 19:29:14
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If you are an employer, you can already get a Bulgarian worker posted under the EU Posted Workers Directive for a minimum wage of €123 per week, approx €3.23 per hour !
As a deflationary spiral gets worse, we could indeed see agreed rates fall as Govs tries to ensure competitiveness worldwide to prevent further jobs going elsewhere, eg China.
Although I think COIR are exaggerating, they may not be far off in the longer term.
The Posted Workers Directive is being seen as Social Dumping by many in the trade union movement, who cannot ensure workers are paid according to local agreed rates.
The relevant judgements by the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in the Viking (EU0706029I, EU0605029I), Laval (EU0801019I, SE0801019I, SE0706029I) and Rüffert (EU0805029I) cases.
The ECJ essentially ruled that the EU principles governing the free movement of goods and services, the freedom of establishment and the freedom to provide cross-border services should not be impeded by industrial action aiming to ensure that posted workers receive collectively-agreed terms and conditions and the inclusion of collectively-agreed terms in procurement contracts.
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Forum Guru
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Last Login: 12/11/2009 11:42:47
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Yes cit1zen - if you try very very hard, you can come up with a ridiculous worse case scenario. Why not say that a meteor could strike? You are clearly attempting to scaremonger.
If there is one thing I've noticed about the formal 'No' campaigns it's that if you scratch beneath the surface a little you find a hidden agenda. Coir think we'll be up to our necks in foetuses, and Sinn Fein are worried that their usual agenda might be sidelined a bit.
All of which is complete rubbish.
The fact is, nothing much will change at all.
My personal view is that there is more clarity with the arrangements brought in with Lisbon. You are entitled to a different view.
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 16/09/2009 13:25:34
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| Seems you just want to be offended! If you look carefully you will see that there is a question mark at the end of the sentence. So it is a question rather than a statement! I take it the poster is asking if such will be the case if there is a yes vote! Talk about taking things out of context!
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Forum Member
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Last Login: 14/04/2010 11:04:05
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Pro democracy (16/09/2009)
Seems you just want to be offended!
If you look carefully you will see that there is a question mark at the end of the sentence. So it is a question rather than a statement!
I take it the poster is asking if such will be the case if there is a yes vote!
Talk about taking things out of context!
Two things here to make from your response.
1. You either work/support/ or designed the posters for Cóir.
or
2.You are the most gullible and naive person in Ireland.
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Forum Guru
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Last Login: 12/11/2009 11:42:47
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Ha ha  You MUST work for Coir! Only a Coir brainwash-ee could possibly believe that anyone would be so gullible and naive that they'd just accept the sheer stupidity of your post.
There's a question mark. Would you go and rub yourself.
Pro democracy (16/09/2009)
Seems you just want to be offended!
If you look carefully you will see that there is a question mark at the end of the sentence. So it is a question rather than a statement!
I take it the poster is asking if such will be the case if there is a yes vote!
Talk about taking things out of context!
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 26/09/2009 00:38:43
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I like how people edit cóir posters and laugh at them.
I just laugh at the yes posters as they are.
There's a lot about jobs and recession-fighting up there, where were they last time? Did the treaty completely change? or is it the same as it was when it was written from 2001-2004 and not made to fight this new recession at all?
Cóir posters have basis in reality, fact.
They might be half-lies but that still means each is infinitely more true than yes posters.
Where were all you yes voters last year?
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